Kyrie Irving unplugged: Mavs guard talks ‘accountability,’ Dallas’ mission, Olympics and more

October 10

LAS VEGAS — Kyrie Irving is beaming.

Inside this Mendenhall Center gym he knows so well, having spent all those years with Team USA here for tryouts and training camps that helped elevate his game and sharpen his mind, his focus during this Dallas Mavericks training camp is on the present and the positivity that comes with it. Their five-game NBA Finals loss to the Boston Celtics is in the rearview now, replaced by a summer full of memories that involved his successful recruitment of Klay Thompson and sneaker tour trips to China and Bangkok.

The 32-year-old walks through the post-practice crowd of players and team officials as if he’s the team’s official ambassador, shaking hands and stopping to talk with teammates and visitors alike. Irving, who has tried so hard to move past his stumbles that came before in Boston and Brooklyn, agrees to take a seat in the nearby stands to reflect on the good times that have been a part of this Mavericks renaissance.

His viral moment from the day before is the first topic of discussion.

At the team’s media day in Dallas less than 24 hours before, where they all discussed the unexpected trip to the finals in June and their plans to make that kind of run again, the world saw his softer side during an affectionate social media moment with his young daughter, Azurie, during her first visit to the annual event. She gave her father his flowers — roses, to be exact — and the unintended symbolism couldn’t have been more obvious.

These moments >>>#MFFL // #MavsMediaDay pic.twitter.com/XUgGulkiuZ

— Dallas Mavericks (@dallasmavs) September 30, 2024

As Irving is well aware, the controversies that preceded his Mavericks move — from his decision not to get vaccinated from COVID-19 that derailed the Nets’ season in 2020 to his October 2022 tweet in which he promoted an antisemitic documentary and beyond — will likely always have an impact on the way he’s discussed. And Irving didn’t shy away from reflecting on those sensitive times through an updated lens. But on the backside of that sordid chapter, in this Mavericks moment where the profound impact of his play and his presence has been indisputable, he has built a body of work that deserves credit while reminding the masses he’s nowhere near his basketball end.

In a wide-ranging interview, Irving touched on many points of his journey, including …

Learning to be a leader: “I used to think leadership is just this lonely, lonely, lonely thing, and it’s not. It’s literally surrounding yourself with great-minded people, great-hearted people, and being able to ask them to push you at times when you’re not able to push yourself.”
Learning from the fallout of his tweet about a film with antisemitic themes: “I had to go through that time to understand not just who the Jewish community is, but who are the people that I’ve been around my whole life.”
Not being part of Team USA this summer: “I won’t say it was hurtful not to be able to try out, but it just was weird that we weren’t able to try out and get together as a group.”

The full conversation follows below, though it has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

The offseason is always a time for reflection for players, so has anything changed about how you see the run you all made and the journey back to the finals for you?

Just being able to make it back to the finals after seven years, man, that’s a lot of stories, a lot of things that took place in between, that have shaped me to be who I am today. And it’s not just from the basketball standpoint, but the maturity, going from my respective teams that I played on, and then landing in Dallas on the trade, and then signing back. … Starting off the season, I think there was a lot more uncertainty than there was (the idea that) we’re for sure going to be in the finals.

So yeah, I could talk about the naysayers. Yeah, I could talk about the doubters. Yes, that’s cool. But I like to talk about how our team chemistry was built because we went through a lot of challenges, and because we went through a trade deadline where we just weren’t sure (where it was going)…

As Irving looks back on it all amid the post-practice scene, Nico Harrison — whose trade deadline acquisitions of Daniel Gafford and P.J. Washington were key in the Mavs’ late-season surge — walks by. As I wrote heading into the finals, the former Nike executive whom the Mavs hired in late June 2021 and who worked with Irving in his shoe-company capacity during his early NBA years, had everything to do with Irving’s trust level in the organization when it traded for him Feb. 6, 2023.

So I would just say, it’s a big credit — and not just because he walked by — but I would give credit to Nico and J-Kidd (Mavs coach Jason Kidd) and our ownership group. They allow us to be us as players on the floor, and then off the floor, we just like vibing with each other. There’s a good sense of energy here. We’re not shy about being honest with each other. In the entertainment industry or in sports, there’s a difference in locker rooms when it comes to the maturity and (the question of) ‘What do you want to accomplish as a group that’s realistic?’

Irving showed last season he’s still one of the dynamic and dazzling talents in the game, finishing as one of just 11 players who averaged at least 25 points, five assists and five rebounds and one of four players who shot 41 percent or higher from 3-point range while taking at least seven attempts per game. Thompson’s arrival, along with another year of chemistry building with those who were there before, should keep Dallas among the Western Conference elite. And Irving, as he made clear, is determined to maximize this Mavericks opportunity.

After everything that went on before Dallas, you’re putting together a substantive chapter here where your leadership — which was questioned so much back then — is being praised and you’re a crucial part of a quality program. What does it mean to have the energy continue to go in a good direction?

Well, I’ve accepted that the true characteristics of leadership, or a great leader, is being able to know when to delegate responsibility and being able to understand others on a personal level, on a human level. It’s easy to conjure up the words to tell somebody, ‘Hey, just do this on the court. Just run a little faster. Just lock in a little bit more.’ You have all the phrases that we use all the time. But when you get to know somebody’s family, you get to know their life story. You get to know what inspires them. You get to know some of their weaknesses that they want to work on, and you do your best as not just a confidant, but a friend.

We have to build some sort of friendship in order to accomplish something special, because I’m gonna need to depend on you in tough moments, and I need to be able to look you eye to eye and tell you the truth without it deviating from the mission. I struggled with that as a young player of (figuring out) ‘How do you handle the truth in tough situations?’ And I had great leadership around me. But also, there was a — I think you alluded to it and you touched on it — was just (the reality that) the negativity could win.

You can’t let the negativity win, especially if you’re not playing well or things aren’t going as well as you would like. We all learn a lot more about each other and the way we handle things, especially when things are tough. When things are going great, I think everybody’s easy to be around to a certain degree. And that’s what I was able to learn, man. I used to think leadership is just this lonely, lonely, lonely thing, and it’s not. It’s literally surrounding yourself with great-minded people, great-hearted people, and being able to ask them to push you at times when you’re not able to push yourself. How are you going to pick up somebody else when they’re not able to be their best?

So I think that’s a true testament of just what has happened throughout the past few years — not just coming to Dallas. Even when I was in Brooklyn, I was trying my best to turn that next page in my chapter, because I had already dealt with a lot of the scrutiny from things that I felt were unfair at the time, whether it be the decision of not following the protocol rules of the vaccine or having a suspension over what transpired. All that stuff was heavy emotionally, and basketball was such a second fiddle to that.

I think I kind of just had to reverse osmosis everything and figure out that life in its totality is something to be appreciated, and not just coming to the court and being able to express myself and get 30 (points) a game and then be praised on social media and try to null what everybody’s saying about me and try to prove everybody wrong. It’s just a waste of energy trying to do that all the time. Of course, that’s gonna come, but it comes when you accomplish something greater than yourself and you can look back and reflect with people that honestly just had an opinion. That’s it. It wasn’t a hurtful take or trying to hurt me personally. I never felt that way. But I just didn’t know how to differentiate that as a young player.

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Irving is entering his second full season with Dallas. (Logan Riely / NBAE via Getty Images)

I didn’t plan on going big picture, but you kind of went down the road a little bit. So I wonder: How do you feel like you’ve changed these past couple of years? No matter what side of the fence you’re on in the vaccine discussion, that’s not front and center anymore because the climate has changed, so put that to the side. But then you have your tweet, and everything that came with it, where I wonder what all the time since then has looked like. What kinds of relationships, and what kind of growth, might have come out of that experience for you? Has your view of that situation evolved?

I mean, yeah, I think that’s a deeper story for another day, but if I could elaborate in a simpler form, I would say that I struggled with being unfairly perceived in that moment because of probably what I was responding to rather than what I felt. And when you’re attacked aggressively the way I was, and even from my sense — I’m not a saint. I’m not gonna say I’m not responsible for what happened (to) a certain degree. My accountability is there. I do take my accountability. But at the same time, it was not meant to divide or hurt anybody. That’s never been my intent … to go out and try to intentionally hurt anybody or another group of people, especially knowing how much intergenerational trauma me and my family deal with, (and) what transpired in America with the U.S. government and Indigenous people and Native Americans.

Irving’s late mother, Elizabeth Ann Larson, was a member of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. She lived on the tribe’s reservation that straddles the North Dakota-South Dakota border until the age of 8 and died of sepsis at the age of 29. Irving, who reconnected with his Native American roots in the summer of 2018, was 4 at the time.

I come from being a student of the oral history of what happened, the treaties being disrespected by the U.S. government and my ancestors being murdered brutally, being hung from trees and being lynched. All this stuff is not easy to deal with when you’re a young person and you feel like you’ve been indoctrinated by — I’m not going to say just our school system, but I didn’t get a fair shake at trying to learn the truth of what happened to my family. So trying to put the pieces together, it put me in a position where I had to go through that time to understand not just who the Jewish community is, but who are the people that I’ve been around my whole life. My AAU coach (Sandy Pyonin) is a Jewish man. I played for him for four years.

Irving also highlights the importance of his relationship with his college and former Team USA coach, Duke legend Mike Krzyzewski…

I don’t just use (those two men) as examples, but these are the leaders who I learned under, you know what I mean? These are the men who — (in addition to) my dad — gave me a lot of parental guidance, moral code, and they taught me about the world, about how you associate yourself with it without disrespecting anybody. I’ve been around caring people who go out of their way to get others what they need. That’s what I had growing up. I didn’t have my mom. I didn’t have my grandmother. So these coaches — and not just Sandy Pyonin or Coach K, but my dad, my uncles, my aunts, other friends, uncles, whatever religion, whatever culture they are, they felt a need to protect me.

So during that time, you got to see how big my tribe is, and how conflicting it can become if it becomes about race, culture or divide or confusion, and that was the last thing I wanted. That was the absolute last thing I wanted from that tweet or from that situation or the perception of the vaccine or anything that transpired where I felt like I was on the inside rather than on the outside progressively speaking my truth. I was insulated. A lot of things that I was saying were being used against me, (but) I was insulated.

But now that I’m here, I’m not going to give any ill-intentioned words to anybody, because that’s not my desire, and that wasn’t my desire then. But my desire has always been to have a foundation of unity and use basketball as a vehicle to bridge that gap, you know? I’ve been able to play with all walks of life, my whole entire life. Now is not the time to be describing me as a racist or as somebody like an antisemite. …

It led to death threats, and it led to me having more security, and it led to me having to deal with associating with my family in public places because we were unsure of what the response was going to be. And once I think I started just being fearless, where I can have any conversation with anyone, and we can sit down and converse, I don’t mind that. But no one does that. And when people are just at home and typing away and writing away — again, I’m not downplaying it. It’s just that I felt unfairly treated. And again, I take my accountability, but I’ve been able to learn from it.

The last time I was in this building was at Team USA’s training camp (before the Olympics). I covered it and honestly kept thinking about the fact that you probably should have been there. You’ve fairly pointed out that, in the old days, there was a tryout, and this time around there wasn’t. So what was it like to not be part of that group? With Steph and LeBron and KD, that’s your generation.

The national program held tryouts for decades under longtime Team USA managing director Jerry Colangelo but shifted to a less stringent system under former NBA player Grant Hill when he assumed the position in April 2021. Not only does Team USA no longer hold tryouts, but also players no longer have to make the three-year commitment to the program that was required under Colangelo.

For Irving — who won gold with Team USA at the FIBA Under-18 Americas tournament in 2010, the FIBA World Cup in Spain in 2014 and the Rio Olympics in 2016 — this became a point of contention when he wasn’t selected to the final roster. Add in that Krzyzewski ended his storied 11-year run as Team USA’s head coach after the Rio Olympics, and Irving found himself wondering why he was suddenly on the outside looking in. In the wake of Nike’s decision to end its relationship with Irving five weeks after his October 2022 tweet, he signed a five-year deal with the Chinese shoe company Anta to become a signature athlete and chief creative officer in July 2023.

I won’t say it was hurtful not to be able to try out, but it just was weird that we weren’t able to try out and get together as a group because the USA team is not just 12 guys or 15 guys. … I was playing on Team USA when I was 17, 18. I won three gold medals. I won when I was 18, when I was 22, and I won one when I was 24. So there is a pride thing there, and I have history. There was such a great competitive pool that you can test yourself against because it’s the best in the world. It’s not every day you get a chance to go against (players of that caliber).

Iron sharpens iron. That sort of thing?

Absolutely. So we got seven days to compete. And even if I don’t make the team, I’m fine with that. But I know that I’m going to leave it out on the line, and I know that I’m one of those players who’s able to…

Be part of a meritocracy?

Absolutely. And I’m fine with being able to earn my spot. That’s not a problem. But what I saw from a lot of my other peers is they had more interest than probably they were given credit for. I think the USA committee had a tough decision anyway to shrink down that group.

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Irving has experience playing for Team USA but wasn’t in the mix for the most recent Olympic cycle. (David Dow / NBAE via Getty Images)

But did you have any communication with them?

I had communication with Grant throughout the season, but I think it was more or less a surprise that I wanted to play. I think it was just a surprise that I wanted to play and (that) I was engaged. I speak on this from a healthy standpoint, like let me make sure that’s clear too. It wasn’t jealousy. It was like, ‘Oh, OK, this means that there’s an extra motivation, just naturally, where, OK, I guess 2028 (is the plan)?’ And maybe it’s not for Team USA. I’m just really proud of the (Team USA) guys, at the end of the day.

But if not Team USA…

I would love to entertain playing for Team Australia, man.

While Irving was born in Melbourne, Australia, and holds dual citizenship, he could only play for the Australian national team if both Team USA and FIBA approved his choice.

I don’t think it’s a strong, strong possibility at this point, depending on what the Olympic Committee does. But as a competitor, I was born in Australia. For me, it’s not a hard transition to make, but I don’t want to fall into the same, I would say, probably like — I’m trying to be very intentional with my words here. I don’t want to fall into the trap of being let down or disappointed when I know that there are other opportunities out there for me.

At the end of the day, do you think the Nike backstory was a factor?

I mean (pauses). I don’t know. I don’t know. I can’t pinpoint it, because I don’t pay enough attention to Nike at this point or any of those guys. And I love all those guys over there, but it’s always been healthy competition since I left, and they know that. I appreciate that. I just wanted a chance to try out.

Just give me a shot, because that was the culture that was created for us here with USA Basketball, with the original guys from 2008 to 2016. I’m coming underneath the mold of Kobe (Bryant), ‘Bron, J-Kidd. So those guys taught me a lot about just what it means to earn your stock. You’ve got to think, how many All-Stars weren’t on that team when those guys were on it? You’ve got ‘Bron, with D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) coming off the bench, so they taught me how to sacrifice and be selfless if you’re on Team USA. And I think the guys did a great job of that. I don’t think the culture is missing that. I just felt like once things started changing coaching-wise, with Coach K’s last year, it was gonna be a changing of the guard anyway.

So 2028 is on the to-do list?

I’m definitely planning on it for 2028. God willing. I’m healthy, yeah. For sure.

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(Illustration: Dan Goldfarb / The Athletic; top photo of Kyrie Irving: Nic Antaya / Getty Images)

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